Comments

celia wrote on Aug 5, 2009 5:48 PM:

" Hey Peg
I hear your concern and understand. No worries though. You see, when fringe people are brought out to the light of day, people see what they are all about and don't want to side with them. Of course the other "fringers" will not be persuaded to use reason and they may have some strange gratification. But those"on the fence" tend to side with reason. I don't let them get me down as I have my own work out/ spiritual path to keep me sane. Plus, I really do send the fringers loving energy they so desperatly need. Blessings! "




Peg wrote on Aug 5, 2009 4:29 PM:

" Honestly, Celia, why do bother to even reply to We? All you do is feed his lunacy and you'll never convince him (her?) of anything civil because of his narrowminded outlook of civilization. All you do is get aggravated....and that person is certainly not worth your valuable energy. "




celia wrote on Aug 2, 2009 7:00 PM:

" Oh WE. Forgive me for not bowing to your idea of civil rights, so long as one has sex with the opposite sex. I did not see "sexual orientation" in your list of no job discrimination. So I guess you think we should not work? Modern day "stoning"? Can't work, can't eat, can't live. That's the message you give off. And why are gonads such an issue anyway?I just don't respect half hearted civil rights espically from someone too gutless to go by their real name.Honestly you do have my prayers and they are not limited! "




We the people...... wrote on Aug 1, 2009 11:45 PM:

" I have a healthy respect for civil rights, I believe that all men (and women) are created equal and are entitled to have the same rights/benefits. That is why I think we should all share the same benefits, in marriage (between a man and a woman) as in the Bible. I also feel that women and men should earn the same salary for the same job. I also feel there should not be job discrimination when filling a position of work. There should not be discrimination by reason of sex, color, or creed. All have been fulfilled. "




We the people..... wrote on Aug 1, 2009 11:28 PM:

" Celia: you too should read more and then you would be more informed. One cannot just have a narrow view of the world, otherwise change cannot come about. I would think you would know that....Ok, just some good advise. Stop trying to pick apart comments and think of the big picture, you know, where we all benefit from it. "




Ann wrote on Aug 1, 2009 10:22 PM:

" OK, I said "out" in my previous post to celia, (not the first time??) but I want to assure all who may be following this huge large thread, that it was not I who posted under Ken's name. "




Ann to celia wrote on Aug 1, 2009 9:36 PM:

" celia, if you have not already done so, Google Mel White and read some of his literature and biography. He is fighting the same fight and I am proud to say that a member of my family was once affiliated with him. Out. "




celia wrote on Aug 1, 2009 7:36 PM:

" Ken buddy! Hey I don't know who pulled the fake blog and it's was not okay to do so. Whoever did the fake posting,don't do that! I understand the desire to channel what seems to be seething underneath the local representitive of the taliban. However, it's not good to give someone already on the fringe of reality anything real to be parinoid about. There is plenty of material for a twilight zone episode without having to do the false blog.I appriciate the possible support for =rights, just better ways of going about it. Stay on the high road. "




Ken wrote on Jul 29, 2009 10:12 AM:

" Ann: Biblical not religious. Celia: I am sharing from the Bible. May I suggest you read it. Maybe the Holy Spirit will reveal something to you. It justifies itself. Sin is sin. Jesus came to save us from it daily by merely asking to be forgiven. Whatever you do is between you and the One you will some day answer to. As will I, even for sharing what I believe. If I have it wrong, let me know. I hate sharing mis- information, I have to answer for that too! "picking on gays?" Logic? Nope. Source available universally. "




celia wrote on Jul 28, 2009 7:48 PM:

" Okay on to the right of same sex couples to marry. Ken, using your "logic" many "sinners" are allowed to marry. If you are consistant in your "logic" then noone who has ever lied, cheated, said the lords name in vein, stolen, coveted,fornicated, murdered etc.etc.etc. can marry. There are no civil laws against those "sinners" getting married.Why pick on Gay people? Maybe because people discover that they are Gay and that scares the you know what out of those who may be closeted. That has been the case for many who preach the strongest against homosexuality.(refer to previous comment) "




Ann wrote on Jul 28, 2009 6:33 PM:

" I'm sorry Ken, you are too over-the-top with your religious beliefs and how you express them. I would like to defer to someone else to respond to you, if that person sees fit to do so. I am weary of this futile thread with you. Take care and, blessings to you. I will be praying for you. "




Ken wrote on Jul 28, 2009 3:45 PM:

" I believe it IS a choice. I don't widely accept it is natural. Homosexuality is not God's design. The world has crept into the church just as the Bible says it would. And people will fall away as well. Why would I go along with the world? The Bible says we are set apart from the world. It's the reason you and the world disagree with me. Jesus was the same way! That is why He was crucified! The religious scholars hated Him, because He spoke Truth. He spoiled their control! Of course it is going against God! "




Ann wrote on Jul 28, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Ken: No one is asking you to go against God. There are many people of faith that have a different perspective of homosexuality. Read some of Mel White's literature. Do you honestly think Gays have a choice in the matter? That is the real issue that needs to be resolved in order to reach compromise with devout narrow-minded folks. It has become widely accepted that there is no "choice" in the matter. Laws have been put in place against discrimination based on sexual orientation. OK, so why not marriage? "




Ken wrote on Jul 28, 2009 10:57 AM:

" Ann: Condoning that is an abomination as well! Why would I want to go against God? "




Ann wrote on Jul 28, 2009 7:49 AM:

" Ken: Yes, we are having a great argument here. OK... the Bible says homosexuality is immoral, therefore it is. So what? What I am saying is, if it is in fact immoral, that is God's call to judge, not ours. Morality cannot be legislated. Again, if two women or men want to marry and live together as a married couple, let them have the same marriage rights as heterosexuals. Who are we to deny them that? "




Ken wrote on Jul 28, 2009 6:56 AM:

" Ann:The ONLY point I have making here, is exactly what you are saying. But, we come to it from completely opposite sides. I find this interesting! This is what we agree on: This issue should've never come to legislation. I say it is because of "moral decline". You say, "civil rights". I don't disagree about women's voting rights, black equality, etc. Those things aren't immoral. I am not judging anyone.I am sharing Biblical principles.They do not change. If the Bible says homosexuality is an abomination,then I believe it is! Why should I have to vote on an abomination? "




Ann wrote on Jul 27, 2009 6:32 PM:

" To Ken, again. Hey, I want to thank you for your kindness in mentioning my soon-to-be 91 year old ma. Now, to get back to the subject... you mention in your last post, and several others prior, the "moral decline" that pervades our society. Really? Gays have been around for a long, long time. Read the posts. Women used to not have the right to vote. Blacks used to ride at the back of the bus. Equality is a must for all. Morality should not be legislated, it is too subjective. "




Ann wrote on Jul 27, 2009 6:10 PM:

" To Ken: I actually kind of like you when you can have a productive dialog. You know, we who disagree here will never see the issue the same way, so it is kind of futile to keep going on about it. May I just say, isn't it a higher road for two same-sex folks to want to commit to each other than live a life of debauchery elsewhere? I mean, two people commit to love and obey until death... is that so bad, really? Many heterosexuals do not have a good moral track record. "




Ann wrote on Jul 27, 2009 6:04 PM:

" To We the People. I am not Gay. I am speaking out in support of two women who choose to spend the rest of their lives together as a married couple who, I believe, should have the same rights as those in heterosexual marriages. Simple as that. If Gays truly are immoral in God's eyes, let them answer to Him, the same as all of us will some day. But, we as a society of humans, should not deprive them of their rights, if they so choose to marry. "




coastal wrote on Jul 27, 2009 9:29 AM:

" WOW! I have great respect for those who live in places like KRV who are in the fight for civil rights! I never understood how propH8 could pass but after reading this thread, I see what you are up against. Hopefully we will communicate more facts to calm irrational fears that seem to prevail in that part of the state. Until then, hang in there and know you are not alone. "




tabbith wrote on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 AM:

" It seems that pro gay comments are always allowed. If you have a differing opinion then it is not allowed! I've posted several times how gay marriage affects some people in a negative way. But my posts are never allowed. Whatever! Liberals aren't really open minded after all. "




Ken wrote on Jul 27, 2009 6:02 AM:

" To Ann: I see another rabbit trail coming again, but perhaps this will get posted regardless. Your moms lesbian friend is a human first. Then a lesbian. It's great she has concern for your mom. That's awesome! As for the issue in this thread. The civil issue is of course important or this thread wouldn't be record breakingly long. But the civil issue is far smaller than the moral issue. If our society's morality had not declined to this point, it would have never reached the civil level. It's going to get worse before it get better! "




Ann wrote on Jul 26, 2009 5:55 PM:

" Ya know, I would like to share with this community something that means a lot to me. My father passed away in 1996. My Mother is a stalwart Christian (whatever that is??). But a gal, Lesbian (or should I say gay?) has for the past thirteen years or so taken my Mom out or brought dinner in for Valentines's day all these years. My family and I cannot begin to tell you how much her love, caring, and consideration of our Mother means to us. God bless that Lesbian sinner. "




We the people wrote on Jul 26, 2009 3:48 PM:

" To Anne: I have not seen or heard of any perverted Christian playing out their sexually-deprived fantasys here in KRV, however I did hear about the meetings of "Friends" for exchanges recently in Kernville. Now, Editor Cathy, I fail to see why my answer to Anne would be not allowed when her comment is allowed, can you tell me? Are only gays allowed to talk about their fight for legality in same-sex marriage? "




Ann wrote on Jul 26, 2009 2:07 PM:

" OH, in my haste to post the last comment, I was remiss in saying:

BLESSINGS to all, and to all a good night. Blessings. Where is the cheesecake? "




Ann wrote on Jul 26, 2009 1:55 PM:

" I am praying for all of you. My God has answered my prayers, in fact. He told me, just this morning, that gays should have equal civil rights and He would punish those who tried to stand in the way. Praise God, Hallelujah!! He has spoken!! "




Ann to Around the world wrote on Jul 26, 2009 1:22 PM:

" Without re-reading all of the posts here, I do not recall anyone putting the "moral" label to gays. This is not a morality issue. There are many heterosexuals (sp?) who are immoral. Whether you and other religious folk like it or not, gays inhabit this planet and, specifically, our community. They want the same rights that the "mainstream" others enjoy. Frankly, I would rather have celia and her wife live next door to me than some perverted Christian playing out his sexually-deprived fantasies... like many of the priests in this country. "




AWC Part Two wrote on Jul 26, 2009 11:38 AM:

" There is NO political agenda in adding another readers' forum to our site. In fact, it's an effort to expand the discourse, giving everyone more opportunities to be heard, even if it's about the tried-and-true topics few can agree on--politics and religion. Posting on one doesn't mean you can't post on the other. Ask yourself, 'Is this comment better suited to this blog or should I post it on Around the Water Cooler?'
Again, it's not about left vs. right, liberal vs. conservative, gay vs. straight, off-roaders vs. tree huggers. It's about civic, civil, thoughtful discourse. Editor "




Around the Water Cooler Part One wrote on Jul 26, 2009 11:15 AM:

" I think there is some confusion about "Around the Water Cooler" (AWC). We could have done a better job of describing its purpose. I apologize for not doing so.

AWC is an outgrowth of bloggers having a difficult time staying on topic. I understand, sometimes there's more to be said, but one comment leads to another and pretty soon we're off on a tangent.

Check out some of the AWC posts. Ken's post (Bible, not Religion) is a good example and shows an understanding of AWC's purpose.

Cathy Perfect, Editor "




The Truth-really wrote on Jul 26, 2009 8:52 AM:

" Dear Editor: If this is you wanting me to stop writing here, then you have access to my email address; please email, if that is your wish. Otherwise, I will consider the posts telling me and other conservatives to post on the "water cooler" to be the ones who feel they "own the thread."
P.S. Thanks either way. In other words, if this really is the editor and you really don't want conservatives to post here, let us know and we will get out of the way so the gays can rule! "




Around the world. wrote on Jul 25, 2009 10:50 PM:

" Ann, I guess you are about as ticked-off about the jesus freaks, as I am about the people who call same sex marriage moral, and that the issue is about civil rights! I still pray for all of you because I am told to pray for all people. I am very sorry for all of you that you reject people praying for you. That is your loss. "




To Truth-really wrote on Jul 25, 2009 6:38 PM:

" My remark regarding why some comments are better suited to Around the Water Cooler" is real. Editor-really. "




celia wrote on Jul 25, 2009 2:37 PM:

" to productive

Do you really think this is the only place I write? I am very active with civil rights and, as a matter of fact, the issue of same sex marriage is in the works to be on the ballot in 2010. Our feedback is that many who voted yes on H8 realize they were lied to, realize the passage of very expensive prop H8 did nothing and would vote differently now that they have facts instead of religious propaganda. Also we are pushing for federal recognition as there is inequality in federal taxes, travel etc. "




Peg wrote on Jul 25, 2009 7:58 AM:

" Productive, I'm not obsessed, I'm focused. And what makes you think I haven't done my share of letter writing? Moving? Why should I? I was born and raised in beautiful California and it's still the best state by far. We'll just have to get it up to where it should be.... "




Ann wrote on Jul 24, 2009 9:41 PM:

" You guys all freak me out-- not you, editor, not you celia, not you Peg, and not you to all the others who are free thinkers. But those of you who bring your so-called faith and prayers and "blessings" to this blog gross me out. I have always been an advocate of kindness, respect, and acceptance of others' opinions/comments. However, I am so ticked off at the jesus/god freaks that I could throw up. celia, stay where you are and keep up the good fight. You have our support. "




To Ken wrote on Jul 24, 2009 7:41 PM:

" Your last comment is better suited to 'Around the Water Cooler.' I suggest you post there. Editor. "




To Tabbitha wrote on Jul 24, 2009 7:36 PM:

" Your last comment is better suited to 'Around the Water Cooler.' I suggest you post there. Editor. "




To Truth wrote on Jul 24, 2009 7:34 PM:

" Your last comment is better suited to 'Around the Water Cooler.' I suggest you post there. Editor. "




Productive thoughts wrote on Jul 24, 2009 5:51 PM:

" Well, Ann, you don't have to worry about either Peg or Celia being diverted from the issue, they are both obsessed with it. Truth is, if they were productive, they would be doing some writing to people who could get legislators to again try to get the people to vote for same sex marriage or at the very least, move to a state where they could be happy and it is accepted; whatever that it is they want, that is. "




celia wrote on Jul 24, 2009 5:44 PM:

" Thanks Ann and Peg!
Yes I'm concerned about these fringe folk as well.
And no worries Peg. I survived coming out while attending christian college and, heck, I survived many odd attempts to change me into a cookie cutter hetro. And Hey, I'm still me, still Gay and still happy! So, I know their prayers don't work.

And there is no logical, reasonable answer to my earlier question. Only fear based lies that are being revealed. "




Ann wrote on Jul 24, 2009 10:15 AM:

" There are quite a few seriously disturbed individuals here and hopefully they are not a danger to the community, aside from keeping the rest of us diverted from the issue. "




Peg wrote on Jul 24, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Gee....I dunno Celia. I sure wouldn't want all these people who think you're a sinner praying for me! Prayer is about intent and thier's is obvious. And to the rest of you....WHY can't you just keep it about civil rights? It is NOT a religious issue. "




celia wrote on Jul 24, 2009 7:07 AM:

" Believe me I pray for you as well! Goddess Bless! "




We the people...... wrote on Jul 23, 2009 11:10 PM:

" Celia: I am praying for you also....God Bless you. "




Ken wrote on Jul 23, 2009 7:39 PM:

" Perhaps you're right Celia! Maybe some can answer the questions on the level you seek. Blessings "




celia wrote on Jul 23, 2009 12:09 PM:

" Guess I had a knee jerk reaction. I'll try again.

How about you take your prayers to the water cooler. My letter is about civil rights, not religion. I'm waiting to hear specific answers to specific questions regarding specific rights. Guess you can't do that, which is my point. I'm not waiting for a sermon. "




Ken wrote on Jul 23, 2009 11:06 AM:

" Thanks "Praying for You"! Amen! "




celia wrote on Jul 23, 2009 10:40 AM:

" When someone cannot answer a direct question with a direct, logical, reasonable answer, they turn to their old, unproven book of mythology and preach. If you want to believe in a "god" so egotistical as to force everyone to bow their knee and wag their tongue, go ahead, I'm not stoping you. My point again, don't force those beliefs into civil law. Oh and, while your'e pointing your finger, remember there are three pointing back at you. See ya at the water cooler... "




praying for you wrote on Jul 23, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Ken hang in there.It's sad to see so many lost souls-but the Lord said to Preach to the lost and point them to the truth Jesus. Sin as much as you want.There is coming a day when every knee will bow and every tounge will confess Jesus as Lord. That means sinners and saved alike. Right, its about choices, the choice is your's
Smoking or non smoking-The Truth is what we need more of instead of the world's lies. Sin is only good for a season then when the season is over your still empty.Jesus fill's you to overflowing.Keep pointing. "




celia wrote on Jul 20, 2009 12:23 PM:

" Remember governer Jessie Ventura? He was pro gun rights AND pro Gay rights including same sex marriage. The two are not mutually exclusive. I have no problem with responsible gun ownership. The same live and let live attitude should apply to responsible adults who want to build lives together with all the SAME rights and responsibilities as hetro couples. If no realistic harm is caused, what is the problem? Really, noone can answer that with a direct answer. My marriage is NOT affecting anyone elses marriage. "




celia wrote on Jul 20, 2009 12:11 PM:

" Okay I'll play along. I've been voting for many years and I don't recall voting to single out a particular group to deny the right to bear arms. The constitution I speak of states that all laws should apply to everyone equally. Prop H8 singled out a group for different laws and subsiquently, denied certain rights to a particular group, which is discriminitory. That is unconstitutional!I agree that same sex marriage should never have been put to a vote!
After an internet search and talking with teachers, counselors etc. noone knows of a KRV teacher reading that book. "




Ken wrote on Jul 20, 2009 11:07 AM:

" Celia: Your comment on the U.S. Constitution is incorrect. The 2nd Amendment IS in the U.S. Constitution and gets violated everyday. Thus, it IS directly related to this post. That is why it was reviewed and posted. As for Prop. 8, It's no different than gun rights advocates fighting for gun rights. When the 2nd Amendment was written, I am pretty sure (as civil rights go) the framers were not thinking it would EVER come to gay marriage. It is ridiculous to have this issue ever put to a vote. But, since it has, the people have spoken. "




tabbitha wrote on Jul 20, 2009 9:27 AM:

" Ok, first I hope this comment gets posted as every time I have tried to reply to questions about what happened at my child's school my post is denied. What's that about anyway? Ok, I did talk to the principal. She already knew of the incident from other parents. Although the teacher in question was not my son's teacher, I still let her know that that is unacceptable and my son would not be returning in the fall! "




celia wrote on Jul 20, 2009 9:00 AM:

" Ken.

Where in my letter is there anything about the 2nd ammendment?
Why are you avoiding direct questions and comments about same sex marriage with a speal about gun rights? "




Ken wrote on Jul 20, 2009 7:03 AM:

" Celia: "the first of its kind to deny rights to a law abiding group, contradicting the U.S. Constitution." Really? What about......everytime a law abiding citizen is turned down for a concealed carry permit, their Second Amendmant rights, ARE Denied? The teachers in Utah are permitted to conceal firearms at school.....There has NEVER been a school shooting in Utah! "




Ann to We the people wrote on Jul 19, 2009 1:54 PM:

" Sir or Ms, I have to say that I do absolutely agree with you. The age of 6 or 7 is too young to be exposed to any form of sexual orientation. My comments about early age acceptance of differences did not take into account the young age of the children, even though it had been made clear they were 6 or 7 years of age. "




celia wrote on Jul 19, 2009 7:35 AM:

" A KRV grade school made national headlines? Somehow I missed that. I wonder where it is?
Forgive my questioning but that story was part of the fear and lies propaganda by the anti equality side. My point still stands. IF it happened, it did so after prop 8 passed therefore prop 8 didn't do anything to "protect" school children. Also, I think guns, drugs and bullies are far worse for children than books that teach equality, dignity and respect for ALL. Being fearful of a group that is breaking no law and harming noone is sad. "




to We the people wrote on Jul 18, 2009 8:25 AM:

" You are in err. 6 years olds are NOT being taught that bisexual relationships are the "norm"......you have chosen to believe the hype. Do your own research. "




We the people wrote on Jul 17, 2009 7:08 PM:

" The story is true, it was on national television. I am not surprised at that agenda. There are other ways of gaining acceptance for all people besides pushing same-sex marriage, there used to be people who used slang names for mentally challenged individuals, you hardly ever hear of any of those incidents anymore. I think the issue of 6 year olds being taught to accept homosexuality as a "norm," is beyond the envelope! "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 17, 2009 12:39 PM:

" Tabbitha - I heard last year at the high school that there were 3 kids with guns running around shooting up the place. I've learned to check facts in this community. I'm not saying what you heard was a lie, it's just hard to believe that at a time when teachers are scared of losing their jobs that one would do something that would anger a lot of parents. A similar story was spread when Prop8 came up. It turned out to be made up and was created to play on parents fears. Seemed to work. "




Ann wrote on Jul 17, 2009 10:46 AM:

" Tabbitha, acceptance of others needs to begin an early age. Put another way, exposure to various viewpoints at an early age breeds acceptance of others and their differences. Our children are adults now who see the world in a broader way than we did growing up. However, have you spoken with the teacher or principal to voice your concerns? "




tabbitha wrote on Jul 17, 2009 9:09 AM:

" I heard about the incident from 2 mothers whose children were in that classroom. It disgusted them (and rightly so) that any teacher would force her political views onto 6 and 7 year olds! You send your kids to school and expect that they won't be subjected to s.m.u.t (and yes a book about 2 princes marrying is s.m.u.t!). So don't tell me my fears are unfounded! Oh and sorry about the periods in that word but apparently it's a bad word? Weird! "




celia wrote on Jul 17, 2009 5:42 AM:

" Thank you editor!

Back to Gay marriage and the fears it evokes. Tabbitha. I don't know all facts. This school incedent you speak of seems based on hearsay since your son wasn't in the room. It also happened after prop8 passed.So IF it happened, it did so without Gay marriage being legal. So legalizing Gay marriage did not make it happen. Personally, I think there are significantly more frightening things kids deal with in school than some book about two princes getting married(bullying, drugs etc.) So parhaps some perspective might help allieviate some of your fears. "




Ann wrote on Jul 16, 2009 9:04 PM:

" OK, let's get back on topic. The RIGHT for Gays to legally marry and have the peace of mind that LEGAL marriage provides should be confirmed and Prop H8 debunked. Others who agree, please demonstrate your stance by doing all you can to support celia and others. This has turned into a civil rights issue and it will not go away until there is a confirmation of RIGHTS that these folks are entitled to and deserve. But, don't drink the water... you may find yourself on the other side of the issue :-) "




We the people wrote on Jul 16, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Thanks for the new topic coming, "Around the water cooler" Madame Editor!
Looking forward to that! "




Editor wrote on Jul 16, 2009 4:56 PM:

" Once again, the discussion has devolved into a religious debate and is way off-topic. If it's off-topic, it won't be posted.
BTW,we're working on a new feature, 'Around the Water Cooler' that will be a forum for folks to get as off-topic as need be or take the discussion in different directions. Coming soon! Rules of civility still apply. "




We the People wrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:51 PM:

" We, the people whom God created, starting with Adam and Eve, were given free choice. Maybe you homosexuals should think about that....you also have been given free choice to be that, the same as us who are straight. Therefore, we all have free choice.
Now, Celia, no you are not so powerful, just ask God about the issue, he will give you HIS opinion, it is your choice you know. "




Ann wrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:32 PM:

" I grew up in a right-wing Christian household. My parents dictated that I would do my Memory Work to recite to a Sunday School instructor whereby I would receive badges, pins, and gifts upon successful completion. I still have them. Needless to say, I have tempered my religious upbringing with my own adult beliefs/convictions. I do believe that Ken is reciting from "rote" his memory work and does not know any better. He keeps saying the same thing over and over. God help him and protect us from the likes of that mentality. "




Amanda wrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:28 PM:

" PS
There is a level of accountability in ones own church of their choosing. I believe Ken is one of those people on the fringe who needs to be reeled in by someone in his church. Not only does he make all Christians look bad, he seems like he may need some professional help. That is not meant as an insult. Please if you attend church with Ken, grab an elder or minister and have a talk with him, in the spirit of love and help him. "




Amanda wrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:22 PM:

" Hope this works.I'm visiting a friend and using her computer.

Ken, your version of Christianity is highly insulting to those of us who try to follow Christ! Most of the old testament has been looked at through the eyes of reason and many things we no longer do. Most of what Paul said was to specific churches at specific times regarding specific issues. His letters are NOT intended for the nation as a whole and definatly NOT for you to use as an excuse to police those NOT in your church.Is Ken accountable to anyone? Like a legit minister? "




to Ken wrote on Jul 16, 2009 11:37 AM:

" we all free will" Obviously NOT...or we wouldn't be discussing a RIGHT to get married to the person you want to devote your life to! "




celia wrote on Jul 16, 2009 9:39 AM:

" We have reached a milestone:Comments on this blog have surpassed #s for MJ! Wow I'm powerful!(No disrespect for MJ at all)

There is another place we have reached:the twilight zone of crazy and creepy complimants of the local chapter of the Taliban.

Why is it that so many true Christians don't agree with Ken? And if we do have have free will, why is it your job to police us? Here's a project for you. Find in the bible where Jesus HIMSELF(not Paul, not OT) speaks of homosexuality. Some bibles have those words in red ink. "




Ken wrote on Jul 16, 2009 9:04 AM:

" Mindset......exactly. Mine is biblical. People know when they hear truth. I know you all know! Ignore it....accept it...your choice....remember....we all free will! "




Ken wrote on Jul 16, 2009 12:14 AM:

" At least someone here is reading there bible "




Mac wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:00 PM:

" It's really not hard to see where the Taliban come from - we have that same mindset right here at home. "




Mac wrote on Jul 15, 2009 10:59 PM:

" This is about doing what is right for whom? For people who are uncomfortable being confronted with the knowledge that gay people exist? You all need for it to be a choice because otherwise it means God made them that way. And if he did, he also condemned them to live loveless lives according to your interpretation of scripture. Which would hardly make him a loving God. So yeah, I don't blame you all for calling it choice. Because if it's not a choice, that would make the deity out to be a horribly cruel creature. "




Ann to Editor wrote on Jul 15, 2009 10:08 PM:

" Here I am again.. no life, huh? Do you have any plans to increase the word-count of posts from the 100 word limit? It is quite frustrating, because I find that my editing of comments distracts from the points trying to be made... hence, multiple posts. I realize that I am abusive of many posts, but there are points to be made and it is so difficult to do so in the alloted word limits. Just asking. But I am thankful for the opportunity to voice comments. Thank you so much for that! "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 15, 2009 9:56 PM:

" Ken, when you say "the shape we are in" are you referring to the economy being in the toilet? The fact that we started a war without reason? Our nation is so divided that this valley is full of prominent businesses that are listed on a website that believes you should only spend money at a business if it is run by republicans? Is it the crime rate? Drug problem? What state exactly have homosexuals put us in? I understand your feelings but I'm fuzzy on the facts. "




Ann wrote on Jul 15, 2009 9:48 PM:

" Ken, I am not missing your point... just choose to disregard it, at this point. My advocacy on this subject is not my primary goal in life. But I am disturbed by your statements of prophecies of doom, which are archaic and meaningful only to Believers. This is about equality and justice, not 'Blind Faith' (good name for a rock group, ya think?). Quoting Scripture will not win you any followers. Your beliefs do not win arguments with those who do not share your Biblical and Religious faith, accept that and move on. "




Constitutionalist wrote on Jul 15, 2009 8:55 PM:

" To praying for you: We went from a little nothing Nation in 1776 to the world power in 1954, WITHOUT the word GOD in our Pledge of Allegence.
The country has gone to heck in a hand basket SINCE we stuck that word into our politics.
Let me quote you the most Christian Chief Supreme Court Justice Roberts," Saying Go bless America or God Bless our troops is incorrect as the Maker has a much bigger agenda than the USA or our troops.
Go back to church where our Constitution sends you. "




to Ken wrote on Jul 15, 2009 8:54 PM:

" not right? What, exactly, besides what you think the bible says, is WRONG with it? "




tabbitha wrote on Jul 15, 2009 7:47 PM:

" Ok, I am lily white (seriously! I'm so white I'd blend into a white room!) but I have no problem with black people. They are people! However, interacial marriage is hardly the same thing as Gay marriage. Interacial marriage was the marriage between a man and woman of different races. Gay marriage is the marriage of people of the SAME SEX! HUGE DIFFERANCE! "




Robin wrote on Jul 15, 2009 4:19 PM:

" Ken, you write about Sodom and Gomorrah as an example of God punishing everyone for the sins of a few. From what I have read in the Bible, Abraham asked if there were still a few righteous if He would still destroy the cities. God said he would not destroy them for 10 righteous souls. You also seem to think you are personnaly the moral police for everyone, where does that come from? "




celia wrote on Jul 15, 2009 3:29 PM:

" so because there is a smidgen of tolerance of Gay people, that has caused the economy to take a nose dive? or by tolerating Gays we have caused the ozone layer to disintegrate? I guess I'm to blame for over 50% divorce rate, disease, earthquakes, famine...anything else? oh yeah, floods and fires..wow I'm powerful! So, what are you suggesting the "sin police" do to stop this "sin of permission" from total distruction of our planet? Oh I think God is speaking and saying these things are caused by overpopulation and Gays are the divine answer. "




Ken wrote on Jul 15, 2009 2:19 PM:

" Ann and others, you are missing the point. It is because of tolerance we are in the shape we are in. We are way past acceptance and tolerance. The issue started at the beginning of time. This is about doing what is right! What you are suggesting isn't right, and because WE have let it get to this point, WE will suffer the consequences "




celia wrote on Jul 15, 2009 2:12 PM:

" Okeydokey. Tell ya what. I'll gladly deal with whatever is in the afterlife and if that involves a "god" who is obsessed with the gonads of the adult I love, so be it. Please stop trying to "play god" by playing "sin police". It's creepy and the real Christians I know find that action embarrassing. There are good reasons on BOTH sides to keep religion and state seperate. Everyone has a different take on "gods law" and you guys are towing a thin line on the edge of reality let alone sanity. Let God be God and MYOB. "




Ann wrote on Jul 15, 2009 1:35 PM:

" PART TRES. I will end this tirade by stating, once again, perhaps, that I personally know Theologians, Ministers, and common folk who are either Gay or have family members who are Gay. Now, personally, I believe in acceptance and tolerance. But, more importantly, I believe that two people who commit to live their lives together as one deserve the same benefits of marriage as the traditional folks who are lucky enough to not have to worry about that aspect of their union. Their only worries will be dealing with infidelity and betrayal. "




Ann wrote on Jul 15, 2009 1:28 PM:

" Part DOS. My son-in-law grew up in the Mt. Washington area of L.A. surrounded by Gay folks. He accepted at an early age the difference in (should I say...) lifestyle and became tolerant of the differences. Tolerance, equality and acceptance is not an unreasonable goal. The Governors, Senators, Presidents and our very own next door neighbors who cheat on their spouses are examples I wish my children and grandchildren were not exposed to -- but they are because of the media, not to mention their personal lives, when the culprits are their parents. "




Ann wrote on Jul 15, 2009 1:17 PM:

" Back in the 1960's and prior, lily-white folks in this Nation, particularly in the South, believed strongly that their kids could not pee in the same restrooms as colored folks. Coloreds could not ride public transportation unless at the back. They could not be in the same classrooms. Higher education was for the lily-whites who happened to have money. They felt so
strongly about this that there were riots, as well as many needless murders. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 sought change. "




praying 4 YOU wrote on Jul 15, 2009 12:57 PM:

" A quote from Ronald Reagan "If we ever forget that we are
one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under." I truly believe
this is why the United States of America is in the shape we are in today.
Most people have forgotten that we are one nation under God! Let us as
Christians stand up and remind people of this.Read Romans #1 there you will find answers to why God is not happy with the way the USA is going.We as Americans have forgot what this country was founded on-THE BIBLE-remember you are an AMERCIAN "




Ken wrote on Jul 15, 2009 12:04 PM:

" Short sightedness. Actually God has already struck us down at least twice before. What are you guys thinking? As I said before......we all have an inborn knowledge of right and wrong. You can't tell me you don't! If you do, you are ignoring it and even flaunting your sin. Just try to do what is right. Now, I said all of that without mentioning religion. The God part is NOT some fantasy you can ignore. But still, free will. You CAN do whatever you want. Right OR wrong other either pay or reap the reward. Your choice! "




celia wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:56 AM:

" Thank you Sun for having such a wonderful forum to bring people out of seclusion into the light of 2009 so we may educate them. To the awesome supporters, thanks for letting me know I'm not alone and that there are reasonable people in this valley! To the fearful and non supporters of equality, I thank you as well! You remind us of the work to be done and whom to pray for.Plus I'm getting great material for a writing project...Really relax I'm not out to convert anyone. Just stop trying to convert me and we'll get along. "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:33 AM:

" Well there goes my lunch hour! Tabbatha, I have 2 kids. One in Wallace and one in the high school. My oldest has gay friends. This isn't something you can hide your kids from. I teach my kids to love every one. It doesn't matter what color their skin, gender, religious background, etc. I am so proud of my son for seeing his friends for who they are, not who they choose to have as their partners. "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:28 AM:

" Part deux - I hate to generalize but it really is pretty obvious that most people who oppose same sex marriage are right wing Christians. Not all, but most. These are also the people who love to cry freedom for Americans. So why not let people have their own faith, own political views, and own ideas. I don't agree with people who call marriage religious OR sacred. That doesn't mean I want them to think like I do. Leave these people alone. I promise you the country wont blow up and God wont strike you down. :) "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:23 AM:

" Reading Ken and non religous zealout's posts brought something to mind. Marriage means different things to different people. To me it's a legal document that provides you with certain rights. It has no religious meaning to me. And it is anything but sacred. With the way people cheat on each other and divorce at the drop of a hat, it's already become what people seem to fear it would be if same sex couples could marry. "




tabbitha wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:19 AM:

" I send my kid to school to learn to read, write, and do math. I do not send him to school to learn about any type of marriage (gay, straight or otherwise). So imagine my shock when they had "Acceptance Day"! It was all about accepting homosexuals and their lifestyle! Elementary school kids don't need to be subjected to this! Is it any wonder I won't let my son go back to public school? "




tabbitha wrote on Jul 15, 2009 11:14 AM:

" My fears are not unfounded! My guess is that you, Celia, do not have children. Before school let out a 1st grade teacher (luckily my son was not in her class)read her class a story about a prince marrying another prince. That's just wrong! It's not the school's place to teach tolerance, IMO! Things like tolerance should be taught in the home. At 6 years old my son shouldn't be subjected to stories about princes marrying princes! "




Ken wrote on Jul 15, 2009 9:49 AM:

" We all pay for the sins of others. OK, lets take everything out but the physiologic. Boys can't mate with boys...girls can't mate with girls.
I don't want to vote on this either. Churches and schools don't want to deal with it either. Others pay.....how fair is that? Free will....your choice! "




non religous zealout wrote on Jul 15, 2009 9:33 AM:

" Have any of you activists ever considered that there are plenty of us out there that are not "religous zealouts". We are every day folks who are trying to protect something that used to be sacred. Yes, gay marriage goes against the bible and religous beliefs, but it also goes against what is natural. Since the begining of time all species have picked a partner of the opposite sex to marry or mate with. This is how we were created and these are not "regurgetated" religous ideas. I find it so interesting the things we think we can change. "




Mac wrote on Jul 15, 2009 8:45 AM:

" Wait...they currently teach straight marriages in schools? How do you "teach" marriage anyway? But like anything else, if your kids are learning something you don't like, you give them your own point of view, problem solved. "




celia wrote on Jul 15, 2009 8:21 AM:

" P.S. My wife and I , along with 18000 other couples, have been married for over a year. Again, no realistic, tangible arguement has been made as to how our marriage has affected anyone elses marriage. We had a minister happily marry us in front of the court house for free. No church or minister was forced to perform our marriage. And we have not been near any school to "teach Gay marriage"....but I've had hetro marriage shoved down my throat, even had a guy tell me god said to marry him....I told him where to put that. "




celia wrote on Jul 15, 2009 8:13 AM:

" Ann I know you are on the side of equality. no worries!

tabbitha Not long ago, many white folk didn't want interracial marriage taught in school either. I'm not sure how one would go about "teaching Gay marriage" but teaching tolerance of different types of families seems good to me. I don't think churches should be forced to go against their beliefs either and that fear is a made up lie! A couple doesn't need a church or a minister to get married and one can get a minister license on line. Your fears are unfounded.I pray for you. "




tabbitha wrote on Jul 15, 2009 7:42 AM:

" Gay marriage affects me in the way that if it were passed Gay marriage would be taught in schools (it happened in MA! It would happen here!) and I have heard that churches would be forced to perform Gay marriages or lose their tax status. I don't want Gay marriage taught in schools! It's not a topic for school! I don't think churches should be forced to do anything that goes against their religion! That's how Gay marriage affects me! "




Ann to celia wrote on Jul 14, 2009 6:53 PM:

" Dumb me... I said the word "choose" again in my post in reply to yours (pretty sure I did, at least -- it has not appeared on the blog yet). So sorry... it was not intentional, just ignorant. "




Ann wrote on Jul 14, 2009 6:50 PM:

" I guess that "gay lifestyle" would best be defined whereby one chooses to partner with the same sex, as opposed to the opposite one, as some folks around here and other places would consider the norm. I tend to have an obsessive/compulsive lifestyle when it comes to changing channels on the TV and posting comments to opinions posted by others.
I will state again, however... gay marriage is not a religious issue, nor SHOULD it be a legal one... but, unfortunately it has become that. I dealt the religion card only to the zealots who, frankly, repulse me. "




celia wrote on Jul 14, 2009 3:26 PM:

" A few of us have asked some good questions that I believe deserve answers. Bob asked Tabitha for hard facts re:how my marriage affects her. Rek asked Ken if he wanted to tell us something honest for a change. Ann asked Ken some questions regarding his bibles views on other sins. And I have asked for these "experts" to please explain this "Gay lifestyle" to me. Come on, we are trying to get some thoughtful dialogue here. Oh, opperative word,"thoughtful". I guess it's easier to just regurgitate what you heard at "church" than to actually think. "




celia wrote on Jul 11, 2009 7:12 PM:

" Ann You are wonderfully supportive.

Ken I'm not so egotistical as to think that I hold the power to cause massive floods and fires. Now you need to understand that. And no I don't remember Noah or sodom as I was not on the planet at that time and neither were you, unless you are suggesting reencarnation. Therefore there are no eye witnesses nor is there scientific proof, speculation based on a book of fables, but no proof. Believe what book you will, but it is wrong for you to blame me for disasters, man made or otherwise. "




Ann wrote on Jul 10, 2009 10:30 PM:

" celia, despite my diversion in addressing religion here (which is not really what I intended to do, as I prefer to keep one's beliefs or lack of, personal) we (redhead husband and me) support you in your efforts to achieve success in your civil rights fight to maintain legalization of your marriage. You take care, my dear. I do not plan to post any further comments unless I get ticked off by religious zealots, again. "




Ann wrote on Jul 10, 2009 2:55 PM:

" Yes, we should strive to be moral role-models such as Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Italy and France, to name a few. In Noah's case, the rainbow after the flood was God's promise to never again destroy the habitants of his Creation. Sodom and Gomorrah had a lot more going on than homosexuality to cause God's Wrath. Promiscuity by any gender or sexual orientation is wrong. This is different than committing to a "soul mate". I, sir, do not subscribe to your version of Christianity. Quite dangerous and seemingly your own interpretations of the tools of your faith. "




Ken wrote on Jul 10, 2009 11:32 AM:

" As Americans we are responsible. People of other countries hate us because of our lack of responsibility in letting this country deteriorate to this level. Remember God Bless America? God stops the blessings at some point. You have free will to do whatever you want. Don't you remember Noah and the flood? Sodom and Gomorrah? Everyone suffers from the actions of a few. It's your choice. "




Rek wrote on Jul 9, 2009 4:08 PM:

" Let me point out one more thing. This country does not have an official religion. Some say this is a Christian nation, but it is not. We have freedom of religion here, which means I can practice any religion I choose.

That means, by extension, that I don't have to practice a religion if I don't want to. If we pass laws based on the rules set forth in Christian philosophy, that is the equivalent of making me adhere to your religion, even if just a little.

THAT is unconstitutional. "




Rek wrote on Jul 9, 2009 4:04 PM:

" Ken, let me ask you a question. How can you know for a fact that homosexuality IS a choice unless you are gay?

Is there something you're not telling us??? I have noticed a tendency for people to speak out vehemently against the sins of homosexuality, only to end up publicly shamed as part of a homosexual scandal. "




Ann wrote on Jul 9, 2009 3:27 PM:

" OH, hey! Is there any significance that the reprimand in Leviticus did not make it into the Ten Commandments that God set forth to Moses for all to live by? We were told to honor our father and mother, though -- that one made the list. What if one's father turns out to be gay, afterall? Kill him? Just a thought; inquiring minds need to know these types of things. "




celia wrote on Jul 9, 2009 1:35 PM:

" "sin of permission"?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!I don't recall seeing that one. And we could have a field day with Leviticus! So "moral police" are you going stone children who disobey parents? Stone aldulerers? What about the sin of permission if women cut their hair, men shave beards, anyone wear jewlery or make up? Should women have to "cleanse" themselves with odd rituals involving turtle doves and priest after their cycle? Or what about men who "spill their seed" gonna police that?Are you going to storm churches that allow women to speak? Which flavor of "christianity" will you choose to be "Americas religion"? "




to Legal Eagle wrote on Jul 9, 2009 1:02 PM:

" Fooling themselves as to what? Being gay isn't a sin and it isn't 'recent moral decay'....there were gay men and women centuries ago. Just relax and let people live the way they want to....how is it harming you directly anyway? "




Ann to Ken wrote on Jul 9, 2009 12:19 PM:

" As a person of faith, who is straight and does not commit adultery, I will answer to God for my sins. As will those who are believers and non. In Middle Eastern countries, they to this day publicly behead and stone "sinners". In the New Testament, Jesus told a group of folks who were going to stone an adulteress something like, Whosever is Without Sin, cast the first stone. However, let's go with your thinking... let's round up all the gays and adulterers, murderers, and the like and set a torch to them. Right? "




Mac wrote on Jul 9, 2009 12:13 PM:

" Just because one believes in a god and his laws does not mean all should have to live by them. If you believe there are consequences for homosexuality, then fine, believe it and live YOUR life accordingly. Don't force others to live by your beliefs. Nobody is asking you to do anything against your beliefs, and homosexual marriage does not affect your life one bit. I don't see the issue. "




celia wrote on Jul 9, 2009 11:55 AM:

" Wow. This blog was sane for so long. Then the "taliban" showed up. It is truly frightening that there are people who think that my personal"sin" is something that they will pay for. Taking that thought to it's extreme is very scary indeed.The fact that these people think it's their job to play "god" and police the universe is nuts. I can only hope that this type of mentality dies out soon or we will have "sin police" running around. Did we learn nothing from the witch hunts? Do we learn nothing from theocracies that support the taliban? "




Legal Eagle wrote on Jul 9, 2009 10:13 AM:

" Thank you Ken for your post, we are indeed responsible for our thoughts, words and deeds. The three women who post in favor regarding homosexuality but claim not to be, are fooling themselves, one cannot sanction sin without it having some consequence. Obviously I also am a believer; we will all suffer for the sin of permission, one way or the other. "




Ken wrote on Jul 9, 2009 9:06 AM:

" Ann, not far from where you found the ten commandments is Leviticus 20:13. But, this isn't about religion, civil rights or the fact that practicing homosexuality IS a CHOICE. It is about moral decay. So, that being said, as an American in America, many will suffer because of someone else's CHOICES. I happen to believe the Word of God. Just like the LAW gravity, the are spiritual laws that have consequenses. Free will....great! "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 9, 2009 7:58 AM:

" My problem with prop8 is this. My opinion is my opinion. I always thought being gay was a choice too and even today I'll admit I have no clue about it. I'm not gay so why would I understand it. But just because you don't understand something or even if your religion tells you it's wrong why would you stop someone else from doing something that doesn't hurt anyone? Our laws our in place to protect society. How does two same sex couples getting married hurt anyone? That's when it becomes blatantly obvious that it's fear and hate generated. "




Ann wrote on Jul 8, 2009 9:17 PM:

" Thank you, celia. I am truly one to put forth equality, tempered with my own humor. We will see what happens with your fight. In the meantime, enjoy your family and continue your cause. As said in an earlier post, I have a husband (redhead that he is) but other folks' decisions to marry do not pose a harm to us or threaten us unless they are blondes (just kidding). I am remiss on my Constitution and Bill of Rights education that I threatened to put forth, but it will come soon. "




celia wrote on Jul 8, 2009 7:34 PM:

" Ann. please know that my little sarcastic piece was not directed towards you. It was for the one who blantantly said that Gays choose to be Gay and those who still think that's true.
Actually, I really like your comments and can tell you are a reasonable person on the side of equality. In fact,you make some really great points! I'm really encouraged by most of the comments on this letter, and glad to give people a dose of laughter along with education! Love it! Thanks all of you! Even the ones against equality:they make me stronger... "




Ann wrote on Jul 8, 2009 2:13 PM:

" celia, please know that when I use the word "choose" or "choice" or even "lifestyle" it is done so out of thoughtlessness or mis-speak. Nothing else. I am a work in progress in being educated on some issues. However, I chose a redhead... thanks to the so-called moral majority -- those who dictate our standards and laws, we were able to marry legally. I'm not bashing redheads here, just trying to illustrate a point. "




Rek wrote on Jul 8, 2009 7:19 AM:

" Celia, you crack me up, lol. You do bring up an interesting point that seems oft overlooked though.

I'm a man. I like women. I didn't choose to like women, I was...wait for it... BORN THAT WAY.

Gays didn't choose to be gay any more than I chose to be straight. Besides, with the way some people treat them, ( nevermind the occasional fatal beating ) who would willing choose to be gay? "




celia wrote on Jul 8, 2009 6:28 AM:

" Yup! I chose to be Gay
Thought it would be a nice way to spend my day
Second class status for me please
I just love being called names and being judged by those self proclaimed "experts" on that illusive "Gay lifestyle"
(please someone explain to me just what that is. I'm Gay and I have no idea what this "lifestyle" is all about.)
Yup. I chose to be Gay, must be in the water...or I got bit by the "Gay bug"(tool of the "homosexual agenda")Out of the blue it happened. Watch out! It too could happen to you "




Ann wrote on Jul 7, 2009 10:35 PM:

" Tabbitha, what a beautiful name, indeed! I feel badly for your misfortune (recounted in other post-sites) of being disabled, and wish you the best. Civil Rights should apply to all citizens, black or white, hispanic or middle-eastern, gay or straight, who struggle for equality, including those who choose to love and marry someone of the same sex. No one here is pitting gays against blacks when it comes to individual rights to live their lives with personal freedom, guaranteed by our Constitution (I am currently researching this project... my history/social studies is rusty at my age). "




Ann wrote on Jul 7, 2009 9:42 PM:

" I agree with Peg and a few others, including Marilyn, in some respects. It shouldn't be a religious issue, but Christians have made it such. Also, Gay Marriage is a legal issue now but it shouldn't be. It is a matter of personal choice and the law should back personal choice in Marriage with all the resulting benefits, i.e., insurance, decisions, inheritance. It is what it is; hence it has become a civil rights issue. My husband is a red-head. I am so thankful that no one banned our union. "




Peg wrote on Jul 7, 2009 1:12 PM:

" Marilyn, you seemed to have misinterpreted what I was saying. I agree with you that it should not be a religious issue but it has been made into one....nor should it be a legal issue as far as banning the union...but it has become that, too. The bottom line is that other people should not be able to dictate to others who they should love and how they should live. "




Tabbitha wrote on Jul 7, 2009 12:54 PM:

" I guess I'm talking about people like Perez Hilton just constantly whining about their civil rights. It gets old! Also, I beleive to be Gay or Lesbian is a choice. African Americans had no choice. They were born black. You can't hide your skin color for goodness sake! Before my son's school let out for the summer a teacher brought up same sex marriage in class. I was horrified! These are 6 year olds! That's not a topic for school! "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 7, 2009 8:31 AM:

" Put another way... A marriage license is a legal document. It says you have rights to your partners assets after death, medical rights to make decisions for your partner, social security benefits, etc. It has nothing to do with the church. I still have no clue why religion is part of this discussion. If you want it to be a religious act, take the license out of it and make it so you have to apply for all the legal rights at the court house. "




celia wrote on Jul 7, 2009 8:30 AM:

" "A constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage is a form of Gay bashing and does nothing at all to protect traditional marriage" Coretta Scott King. Advocates of same sex mariage have the backing of the King family as well as the Chavez family because they understand that it is a civil rights issue. "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 7, 2009 8:26 AM:

" I'm sorry I disagree with you Peg. It's all legal to me. My boyfriend and I have decided NOT to get married until such time as same sex couples are allowed to marry. The reason being that the only reason we would marry would be so we would have all the legal rights that aren't afforded to same sex couples. We have no desire to stand in a church and make vows that most people break. We are partners forever and don't need any religion to back it up. It's not a religious act. It's a legal one. "




Peg wrote on Jul 7, 2009 7:01 AM:

" Tabbitha, was geting the right to vote for women a civil rights issue? Indeed, so is the right to marry whomever you want to. I don't know of any African-Americans who take offense to the plight of gay people as it being any different.....a right is a right is a right. And, I don't see anyone shoving anything. If you don't like the topic, merely ignore it....no one is forcing you to do anything. "




PMCG wrote on Jul 7, 2009 12:10 AM:

" Just a quick point... Thou shall not commit adultery... Isn't prohibited gay marriage forcing them to commit adultery? "




Bob Walker wrote on Jul 6, 2009 7:51 PM:

" Tabbitha. First, thank you for using your real name. Second, unless you are constantly asked to marry another woman, no one is shoving anything down your throat.
I am heterosexual, and despite frequenting gay establishments in major cities (better food, style, thinking etc) I have never been "hit up" by a gay man. They know what they are looking for and so do I, and so do you.
So if you are not looking to marry a woman, what's your point? Give me some facts. Hard facts on how this affects you. "




Tabbitha wrote on Jul 6, 2009 1:23 PM:

" To call this a civil rights issue is highly offensive! African Americans went through holy heck to achieve their civil rights. Gay marriage is not about civil rights. It's about the Gay and Lesbian community trying to shove their immoral life style down everybody's throats! "




celia wrote on Jul 6, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Wow! 11 out of 12 supportive of equal rights!Thank you! This is truly heart warming. Now if we could just get the votes to go that way....

Ken, I ask you to ask yourself your own question....You know, that place inside that says fairness, dignity and respect are right, judgement,discrimination and bigotry are wrong.... "




Peg wrote on Jul 6, 2009 8:31 AM:

" The point is, Marilyn, that this shouldn't be a LAW. Our government, in any form, should not have the right to dictate who we chose to love and marry. It has become a religious issue because its the religous who are funding the anti-gay programs and telling us that God doesn't approve. Hogwash. "




Ann wrote on Jul 4, 2009 6:37 PM:

" Christianity/Bible Educatin 101 Part Two.

There was a professor at Fuller Theological Seminary a decade or perhaps two ago that was gay. Moved to the East and is still practicing Chrisianity. A former paster of a Presbyterian Church in Hollywood and former Chaplain to the Senate of the United States has a gay son. He embraces and loves his son and leaves judgment to his Maker. Do not judge lest you be judged.

Constition/Bill of Rights education 101 will follow in the days to come. "




Ann wrote on Jul 4, 2009 6:29 PM:

" This is Christianity 101 in two parts.
The Ten Commandments:
1. Thou shalt have no other god before me.
2. No graven images
3. Do not take the Lord's name in vain
4. Observe the sabbath
5. Honor thy father and mother
6. Do not kill
7. Do not commit adultery
8. Do not steal
9. Do not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
10. Do not covet thy neighbor's wife.
My King James version of the bible is missing the 11th commandment: Thou shalt not be Gay. "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 4, 2009 10:26 AM:

" Ken, what if you aren't a Christian? What if your religion or lack of has no problem with same sex marriage? This is not a Christian issue. It's a law that all citizens must follow. "




Ann wrote on Jul 3, 2009 6:49 PM:

" Ken, the main difference in our opinions or gut feelings is that the issue of gay marriage should not be one that is legislated, period. I realize we have gotten to the point now where it will remain with the courts. Our forefathers would be appalled that Women can now vote, that blacks are equal citizens, etc. Marriage between two people is personal. Gay marriages will not harm me nor my values, which are my own. No one can take them from me. Perhaps we should burn adulterers at the stake while at it. "




Ken wrote on Jul 3, 2009 3:30 PM:

" The true sadness is that moral values have decayed to the point where this would have to be legislated in the first place. I'm pretty sure the framers of the constitution never thought homosexuality would BE an issue. Godly values? Godly design? Similar to gravity.....some things aren't meant to be. Yeah, yeah....I know you'll fire back....hey if nothing else.....great entertainment. Truth? Check your heart...you know, that inborn sense in you that knows the difference between right and wrong. "




PMCG wrote on Jul 3, 2009 9:51 AM:

" I am just absolutely baffled about how this continues to go on. There is no other side to the argument. Why the heck would the Supreme Court not take action on this? It's honestly disgusting that they'd even allow Prop 8 to be voted on let alone pass it and not do anything about it. You have a lot of support Celia, as well as many many other people in your situation. :) "




Rek wrote on Jul 3, 2009 7:27 AM:

" I completely agree with you 100% Celia, but like others have said, keep your chin up. It's only a matter of time. "




Marilyn wrote on Jul 2, 2009 9:44 AM:

" I'm sorry for what you're going through Celia. You shouldn't have to vote for your right to marry your partner any more than I should. The truth is though, this isn't going to be resolved through a vote. The Supreme Court is the entity through which all important decisions are made concerning our rights. It'll happen soon. This is too important to too many people. Until then keep your chin up and know that you aren't alone in your battle. "




Ann wrote on Jul 2, 2009 8:24 AM:

" I simply do not understand why the issue of gay marriage should be in the Courts or up for vote. It is clearly a personal decision that two people commit to and live with... and personally I have never been a proponent of moral legislation, where the so-called "moral majority" decides how the rest of us should live our lives. The Opinion expressed above brought home to me how I would feel if my life and future happiness was up for public approval. "




Bob Walker wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:55 PM:

" If you believe marriage is sacred and between and man and a woman, gays are not a problem. Try the married Governor of South Carolina who has had several affairs. (The number two republican hyped for President in 2012)
Or the Senator from Nevada, who admitted his affair with a married staffer, whose husband also worked for him. (Number 4 presidential hopeful for the r team.)
Or Newt Gingrich who dealt out on his wife who was in the hospital with cancer. (Number one presidential potential in 2012)
What was the problem with gay people again? "




Constitutionalist wrote on Jul 1, 2009 8:45 PM:

" Back in the Clinton days of "don't tell" the visiting Commander of the Israeli Army was in Washington, DC and asked how he dealt with gays in his military.
He got a very odd look on his face and said." I guess you don't know that every man and every woman in Israel serves in the military.
Therefore we have about 15% of our forces being gay at any time. We have not problem with it."
Neither did American soldiers in WWII. 15% of them were gay too.
It isn't a problem--period. "




All for Love wrote on Jul 1, 2009 7:19 PM:

" Well said... and Many blessings to you... "